It seems like a traditional cyclist's favourite thing to criticize these days are the new e-bikes that are popping up on Toronto's roads, and yes, the bike paths. Not quite bicycles, as they are typically not being pedalled, and not quite scooters, travelling at restricted speeds. More like scooters than bicycles, but importantly for road safety, they sport bright taillights and headlights, turn signals, and dual mirrors.
Here's a letter to make you think about them from the point of view of someone riding them. Maryann King wrote this letter in response to the negative piece about e-bikes recently published in NOW magazine.
Dear Paul Terefenko… you sound suspiciously like one of the "lance-armstrong-wannabes" that I have to deal with daily. You know, the ones on the Martin Goodman trail that are going 35kmh in a 20kmh zone, the ones who don't stop at the stop signs which say "Cyclists must stop", the ones who plow through every red light on Queens Quay, the ones who don't slow for joggers and move into the left lane going around blind corners. I face your type every weekday morning as I commute to work on my e-bike, following the rules of the road. I am a 57 year old woman living at Lake Shore and Long Branch. I work at Queen and Yonge. I used to ride a regular bike, but I am having knee problems. So I purchased an electric bike in April and I have been riding my e-bike to work. This costs me $.04 per night to charge and I am emitting no green house gases into the atmosphere.
It is very unsafe riding on the Queensway. The only other way for me to get past the Humber is to take the Lakefront trail. I checked with a policeman who told me it is legal for me to ride my bike on the path, as long as I obey the limits and signs. I have done so. I am respectful of all joggers, runners, dog walkers, skateboarders and certainly other bikes while I am on there. To those on the path who have now accepted me as one of them, I give my thanks. My bike is no wider than a pedal bike. It is not noisy. (I sometimes have to warn the birds that I am coming.) Going home at night I stay on the Queensway until Windemere and only take the path to get over the bridge; on the other side, I get off as soon as the street becomes available and take the Lake Shore or Birmingham home.
My biggest problem on the road today, is that so many bicyclists do not follow the rules of the road, so drivers are understandably distrusting of anyone on a two-wheeled vehicle. Yes, there will be more of us on the road. As soon as there is a more viable way for us to commute, we'll use it. Until then, I accept that there will always be elitists like you and Yvonne Bambrick of the Toronto Cyclists Union (and I am using the term 'union' loosely, since she won't accept me as one of her ranks), and I will smile and nod my helmet as I pass. I paid over $14000 in income tax last year, and I have the right to use the the facilities like all the peddlers, as long as I obey the laws.
Comments
Luke Siragusa
Re: Big is not so Beautiful (Jimmy Boy)
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 01:42The weight of an e-scooter is of an order of magnitude greater than that of a skateboard, pair of rollerblades or bicycle, each of which comprise a fraction of the operator's weight. Since a vehicle's potential for harm is commensurate with its weight (and speed), its mass is a valid concern in determining its suitability for bike lanes, particularly when those same lanes have been up till now expressly meant for the most vulnerable and exposed class of road user. Why include cars in the discussion? They don't apply.
As far as the rest of your post, it seems as if you've opted for dudgeon over reflection. One can favor the idea of e-scooters on bike lanes (see my first post in this thread) and yet still have reservations.
Now onto other witlessicisms: licenses, registration and insurance. I'm against these encumbrances of the auto-age, but frankly I've lately become more amenable to their application to cyclists if for no other reason than to shut up and deny a rationalization to those that mistakenly believe that their absence precludes cyclists from their right to the road or signal that pedallers are getting a free ride. Funny, even though I've no registration/insurance no one seems to object to that fact when using my tax dollars for building, maintaining, and policing the roads that have for their price of admission the ownership of a car. When was the last time an insurance company paid for the road you travelled down?
Further, since most commuter cyclists are licensed already to operate automobiles -- I am (GM), aren't you? -- licensing cyclists is largely redundant, only serving to further fill the government's coffers. And judging by the car-nage on our freeways the possession of a license doesn't confer competence upon an operator.
I suppose we can require by law that bicycles be registered, charging for the service, of course. Although I really don't know what purpose that would serve anyway since the prime reason for doing so is to facilitate the tracking of vehicles and owners. I've news for you: that's not a priority for the police. Getting around to busting up a bike theft operation that was an open secret took the better part of 10 years. They obviously have matters of more importance to attend to.
But count me in anyway. Let's not forget to register and insure kiddies tricycles' and, of course, scooters for the handicapped, skateboards, rollerblades and every other human powered, road worthy contrivance with wheels attached. Bureaucracy building a better world and brighter future for all. Right on, where do I sign up?
Your concern for cyclists' safety is touching: like you, we should all be forced to wear helmets. And since an accident involving cyclists is more likely to end in bruises, sprains, and broken limbs than a crushed coconut, we should also be mandated to wear knee and elbow pads, wrist braces, mouth guards and kevlar body suits -- just like you do, no doubt -- to protect against the sky falling at any given moment.
Look at all these suicidal cyclists. No helmets and no protective clothing -- -- bare headed children riding double!!!!. Amazing that they are among the cyclists in the world least likely to suffer an injury while indulging their reckless folly.
But, of course, they don't know what you do. Foolishly, they believe that the best way to secure oneself against a threat is to eliminate it, not to accommodate it through fiberglass brain buckets, mediocre infrastructure, excessive regulation, and relegation to the cultural fringes. Sure, let's perpetuate the tail wagging the dog; let's continue to shift the responsibility and the price for the hazards that automobility imposes on us away from those responsible, the motorists and their car culture, and onto ourselves. Let's continue externalizing the costs of a losing proposition then, Jimmy Boy, we will all be equal in our misery. There, are you happy now?
AnnieD
100lbs???
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 08:29I can think of a couple of friends who would way less on an e-scooter than others I've seen on regular bikes!
8sml (not verified)
weighing in
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 08:58Interesting points raised in this discussion.
I've been thinking about e-bikes I've encountered on my rides and initially I thought weight restrictions for e-bikes would be a good way to keep everyone safer on multi-use pathways. Then I remembered that when I go bike touring on my tandem bicycle, the bike plus gear weighs about 130 lbs, plus there is the weight of an added rider that you wouldn't have on a single, non-touring bike setup. And I wouldn't want anyone to say I couldn't take my rig on the paths, so if I don't want weight restrictions for bicycles, I don't feel right saying that there should be weight restrictions for e-bikes. I don't see how actively pedalling--I don't always pedal when I'm on my bike, and unless you ride a fixie, most people coast occasionally--makes a difference to safety, so I guess if I think it is safe for all when I ride the tandem on pathways, I have to admit that it's equally safe for an e-bike of equivalent weight.
Larry (not verified)
Retailer of E-Bikes
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 12:30Just my point of view as a retailer of both scooter style and open frame e-bikes. In the last two years I have found both styles attract a completely different market. I am finding our open frame are attracting cyclists who prefer a bicycle style bike to begin with but enjoy the benefits of the assist. A lot of these customers already own a bicycle but wish another one with a battery either for longer commutes or hilly terrain. The scooter style are attracting a generation of individuals who do not presently own a bicycle but are looking for an alternative to their car for short commutes. As previously mentioned by some posters, this actually is the intent of the pilot. Since the goal or the intent of the pilot is to reduce the number of cars on the road ,especially for people who are not travelling a great distance, I am finding the scooter style are do just that. The bike lane issue is another one altogether and I trust the province will make the proper decision. I do agree though that in other provinces in Canada and in other parts of the world this merging of the two products do not seem to be a problem in bike lanes. Both must be respectful of the others existance, and that therein seems to be the problem. When the pilot first began in Ontario, I do know alot of e-bikers (of both kinds) were getting ticketed by uninformed police officers. When I phoned the MTO to try to help with dissemination of information to the police, the representatives themselves who answered the phone were not even aware of the pilot or the bikes. To this day 20 months later I still come across police and mininstry officials that are confused on the laws of e-bikes.(both styles) To see the addition to the website that they are just becoming aware of scooter style, did not surprise me one bit. I had a customer just two weeks ago with an open frame bicycle get a ticket for an "improper helmet", The officer seemed to think that because it had a motor, the rider was required to wear a "motorcycle helmet". He of course was in error and that too did not surprise me.
tanya
e-bike rentals?
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 12:41Hi Larry - or anyone else,
Do you rent e-bikes or know of somewhere that does? I think that renting a scooter style e-bike may appeal to a regular cyclist that can't cycle for a while, say due to a broken leg.
Larry (not verified)
Rentals
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 12:50Tanya
Segway, one of our distributors of Veloteq E-Bikes may be able to assist you. I know they rent their Segways for touring the Distillery but not sure about the bikes...I hope you have a speedy recovery.
AnnieD
Thanks for the link, Vic
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 12:54I don't know yet whether or not I'll be able to manage the uphill climb in my weekly commute to Bloorview (re. earlier post in forum: commute from Christie Pits to Bloorview Kids Rehab) - the BionX might make all the difference between my cycling each week or taking the subway. My son will also be commuting in the same direction but would definitely not be able to manage the hill (we did it together last winter for a shorter commute and he had to walk up a good part of it) - this could make all the difference for him. Any idea what the price is, or whether it's legal for a 14-year old? Then again, it would probably not last one week parked outside a school before being stolen. :(
AnnieD
*gasp* - just did a search for the price...
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 13:57I think ds will have to TTC it or push his bike up the hill. As for me, I'll be trying it on a very very low gear! The BionX is worth many times more than both our bikes put together.
Jimmy Boy (not verified)
"And since an accident
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 14:29"And since an accident involving cyclists is more likely to end in bruises, sprains, and broken limbs than a crushed coconut"
Did you know that over 85% of all serious head injuries from bike falls could have been prevented by wearing a helmet? For children under 17, wearing a helmet is the law in five provinces in Canada - legislation that resulted in a drop in bicycle-related head injuries among kids by a whopping 45%! Many adults disregard this important safety habit, but children look to adults to set an example - and adult heads can also be injured
http://www.healthyontario.com/FeatureDetails.aspx?feature_id=4073
Please don't take this the wrong way...I just think some cyclists are being to judgemental towards e-bikes. That's All! Your response was very eloquent and politician like...
My point was simply we should be working together to promote more bike paths to accomodate us both, and spend less time arguing who owns the bike lanes...
Luke Siragusa
Re: And since an accident...
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 23:39Jimmy Boy:
"Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics" - Benjamin Disraeli.
Pedestrian deaths in Toronto are typically 10 fold that of cyclists. Of course you recommend that mandatory helmet laws be extended to every biped in the GTA.
But that's small potatoes: every 10 minutes a Canadian suffers a stroke!. That's over 50,000 victims a year! Diets high in fibre and veggies and low in animal derived saturated fats have been scientifically determined to reduce the incidence of strokes. WTF! Where is the law requiring daily servings from the Jolly Green Giant!
Hold it though. Before the folks up on the Hill begin legislating anew perhaps they should abolish some edicts of old that are responsible for more deaths than a dearth of brain buckets will ever be: the legal safeguards of cigarettes and booze. Oops, can't do that, it's a kick where one is most vulnerable: right in the wallet. Can't forgo all those heavenly sin taxes...
So pass the Jack and I'll pass on the broccoli, thank you very much. By the way, do you have a light? As an aspiring candidate for a massive cardiopulmonary meltdown and pickled liver combo, how comforting to know that my preferred method of termination is blessed by the imprimatur of official legitimacy.
It's all enough to make one go mad, to bang your head against a wall! But take heed. A revision of the mandatory helmet law is pending: it will soon extend to lunatics, headbanging fans of Black Sabbath, hen pecked husbands and anyone else inclined to indulge in cranial collisions. Saved yet again by the wisdom of Solon!
I want my representatives to protect my rights and freedoms not spoon feed me dinner or tell me what to wear when riding my bike. That's what nannies are for.
Luke Siragusa
Re: Weighin in
Tue, 07/29/2008 - 19:128sml, you do indeed have a valid point. Your fully loaded touring tandem exceeds eScooters in its heft but I agree with you: it shouldn't be banned from bike paths.
But unlike you, I would like further limits placed upon eVehicles vis. their eligibility for dedicated bikeways. Perhaps my anxieties are misplaced but I expect this field of personal transport to thrive; I anticipate designs ranging from BionX bicycle bolt-ons to option laden eCaddies of golf cart dimensions and heft to proliferate. Wattage ratings should not be the sole criterion in granting access to bikeways. Discretion is in order here.
Jimmy Boy (not verified)
I agree with you
Wed, 07/30/2008 - 15:13"I want my representatives to protect my rights and freedoms not spoon feed me dinner or tell me what to wear when riding my bike"
And that is how I feel about e-bikes...I do not want a puritan cyclist to dictate to me that I am not allowed on his path doing the exact same speed as he is....Just because he is pedalling and I am not.
Ellen N (not verified)
Riding Along Peacefully
Thu, 07/31/2008 - 19:18Today I was coasting along riding my scooter style e-bike on a bike trail at about 8 km per hour, when a cyclist zoomed pass me screaming obsentities. Later today after work my girlfriend and I were out walking our dogs (on leashes) a cyclist zooms pass screaming obsentities. As we were laughing at his outrage, another goes passed and screams at a rollerblader. Would somebody please do a study and find out why cycling (not all of course) attracts lunatics. I think perhaps because their heart is racing, they are in the "fight or flight" mode. Since they are already moving, they just want to fight...Not very peaceful with you guys out there...So don't take it personally fellow e-bikers...they scream at everyone....
Kevin Love (not verified)
Intent of the e-bike legislation
Thu, 07/31/2008 - 20:08Some people have asserted that the scooter-style e-bikes were not intended by the e-bike pilot program. This is untrue.
Since a picture is worth a thousand words, I direct everyone's attention to a photograph of Ontario's Minister of Transportation at a photo-op after she announced the pilot e-bike program. Yes, the Minister of Transportation is driving a Veloteq scooter-style e-bike at:
http://veloteq.com/newsroom.htm
Luke Siragusa
Re: Riding Along Peacefully
Fri, 08/01/2008 - 10:04Too bad a bicycle doesn't confer civility or courtesy upon its rider, although I notice that it often seems to inflate him with an irritating air of self-righteousness. Just so much more hot air contributing to global warming...
WoW! (not verified)
One would think that any
Sat, 08/02/2008 - 16:20One would think that any true cyclist would welcome an e-bike over another car on the road.
I cycle once in awhile but would not be considered an avid cyclist. I do not own an e-bike, yet.
I have been considering the scooter style. I have been a little reluctant only because it is a pilot program and do not want to be stuck with a white elephant. I wished the government would make a decision one way or the other...The suspense is killing me.
toolio
Tired of sanctimonious bikers
Wed, 08/06/2008 - 08:32I am growing weary of sanctimonious bicyclists who seem to think they have divine permission to use a portion of the roadway that they believe nobody else should ever traverse.
Every thread involving e-bikes brings them out. Yet every day--as a bicyclist, an e-biker or a car driver--I encounter bicycling idiots who pay no attention to laws nor to the fact that there seem to be other vehicles or pedestrians in their vicinity. In fact, I am willing to venture that there are at least as many poor bicyclists out there as good ones. Equally, there are good e-bikers and bad ones.
I ride a bike, but not so much these days because of knee problems. I have an e-bike, which suits me just fine on the days when my knee hurts. And I sometimes rent a car, although car ownership does not appeal to me. On the other hand, it is difficult to cycle 300 kms in a few hours, so I will continue to rent cars when necessary.
To the overly critical bicyclists (who, seem to be the same group that believes bicyclists can do no wrong), I say this: E-bikes are a part of your future. Get used to it. And realize that your bicycle is a bicycle, not a high horse.
Luke Siragusa
Re: Tired of sanctimonious bikers
Wed, 08/06/2008 - 09:10Point well taken. Tell me though, do you not harbor the same annoyance at the legions of motorists who've co-opted the lions share of road space as their own exclusive domain? We're fighting over scraps here; there won't be much a future for (e)cyclists if we continue to be exiled to the margins.
AnnieD
Carlanes?
Wed, 08/06/2008 - 09:36I was thinking this morning that with all the people leaving their cars for bikes, ebikes, scooters, skateboards, rollerblades, etc. that maybe someday the roads will be for all these modes of transportation and the cars will be relegated to a few designated "carlanes". And then I woke up. :(
Dave D (not verified)
Dreams
Wed, 08/06/2008 - 17:22I like the way you dream Annie D. It really is time to bury the hatchet with cyclists and e-bikers.
United we stand and divided we fall. I have decided no longer to even respond to negative people...not on the internet and not in real life....
Andrew Thomson
recently my tonka toy was
Sun, 08/10/2008 - 20:47recently my tonka toy was written off by my nephew and while i was waiting for my new truck which was going to be a week for it to be shipped here which is nuts considering how many dealerships are in the toronto area i decided to borrow a friends mountain e bike to do my commute to Sharon which is just north of newmarket and all i can say is i got new respect for these ebikes and that there wicked since almost the whole trip up there is up hill i used the engine to assist me on the hills it turned a 30 minute commute at 4 am into a hour and a half but it was quite an enjoyable one and even though i'm a die hard cyclist in the city and the only time i do use my truck is to get to work and its a truck cause i manage a farm i'm considering getting myself an ebike and leaving the truck at work i think before anyone starts to say that they don't belong they should look at some of the commutes that are possible with an electric assist engine it might actually make you think about getting one with the trips that this type of vehicle make possible.
Lock Hughes (not verified)
e-bikes
Sat, 08/16/2008 - 19:42“More like scooters than bicycles, but importantly for road safety, they sport bright taillights and headlights, turn signals, and dual mirrors. “
If these are so important to road safety, why are they not on pedal bicycles?
“The current stats from the Ontario ministry of Energy and Infrastructure list that our electricity is generated by: 52% Nuclear, 21% Hydro, 18% Coal, 8%Gas, and 1% Wind “
The electrics have the potential to run off wind and solar and micro-hydro etc. Every time “Hydro” cleans up its act a little, ebikes get a little cleaner too. The other emission that ppl overlook are the fluids that gas/diseasal vehicles drip onto our pavements (into our drinking water so down your throat.) The little ebikes don’t have liquids like this.
“The concern I have with e-bikes is with the larger variety. The ones that look like a full size scooter and look like they weigh at least 100 pounds”
Clearly large ppl on pedal bikes should be banned!
“…you will have to contend with "alternative" modes of transport be they rollerblades, skateboards, e-bikes, Segways and who knows what else? “
Kick scooters. Far, far safer than rollerblades and skateboards.
“Yes, there are signs posted on the Martin Goodman trail that say "Speed limit 20 km/h". I have done a search of City of Toronto bylaws and regulations, and nowhere does this limit appear.”
§ 608-32. Speed.
The maximum rate of speed for vehicles, motorized recreational vehicles, bicycles and
personally powered devices in a park is 20 kilometres per hour.
“…the amount of energy needed accelerate is less. It doesn't go that fast so the energy in acceleration is less again. It uses an electric motor which has better energy conversion efficiency than a gas engine.”
500Watts is less powerful than most home hair dryers.
“…e-bikes have no business in bike lanes…”
There are plenty of ebike designs that look like mountain bikes etc… With a well designed ebike ya can’t tell the difference.
“My mind is changing.... Slowly.”
Atta boy At different times in history there have been bans against bikes that didn’t have wooden rims, that were recumbent, etc etc.
“…I was advised that because I am heavier, the smaller types would not work well for me.”
Nonsense. You were sold more than an “ebike”.
“My suggestion is that the police confiscate any bike that doesn't conform to the standard.”
Nonsense. They should confiscate any vehicle being operated in a dangerous manner.
"Bicycles and real bicycle e-bikes are the only vehicles I believe have any place using cycling infrastructure. The point here is not that we don't want them, but that the scooter style electric vehicles don't seem to fit in with what we already know. Perhaps we'll get used to this, or perhaps we'll find another space for those machines. I don't know what the answer will be -- or what it should be."
How `bout being better informed about the ebike product that is out there instead of buying the first piece of crap you see that has an “ebike” label?
“Of the E-bike users amongst us, how often do you pedal your e-bike? Be honest now.”
My “e-bikes” have been kick machines for well over 10,000km and eight years around Toronto. While not the best design for kicking, my next ones will be much better designed towards the kicks end of the spectrum.
“E-Bikes are by no means new, we have just be sheltered from the product for too long.”
Well said. Now we are just being shielded from quality ebikes…
“If I was an accountant or sitting at a desk all day or standing in one spot, I would probably welcome the ride to and from work on a bicycle.”
Well, I have squandered my life as an accountant … I enjoy motoring/kicking to my clients and kicking/motoring home again… Ya can change “kick” to “pedal” here, but you see the change in emphasis? It’s also healthier to kick in the parks and motor when alongside lines of smoking exhaust pipes…
“Lately, I've been thinking that a major problem we face is the high variability of speeds among cyclists. “
Nice thing about power-assist (on a light-weight pedal bike) is that it provides great acceleration. This makes it easier to slow down around visual obstructions, intersections etc… it’s a safety thing.
“Some interesting quotes from the MTO's "Power-Assisted/Electric Bicycles" page:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/vehicle/emerging/in...”
That’s not the letter of the law. Ontario went with the Federal definition. Try this:
“power-assisted bicycle” means a vehicle that:
(a) has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals,
(b) is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground,
(c) is capable of being propelled by muscular power,
(d) has one or more electric motors that have, singly or in combination, the following characteristics:
(i) it has a total continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of each motor, of 500 W or less,
(ii) if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases when the muscular power ceases,
(iii) if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and
(iv) it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground,
(e) bears a label that is permanently affixed by the manufacturer and appears in a conspicuous location stating, in both official languages, that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in this subsection, and
(f) has one of the following safety features,
(i) an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver, or
(ii) a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains a speed of 3 km/h; (bicyclette assistée)
“I'm not even sure why people prefer the scooters over the "normal" e-bikes anyway.”
Ignorance is bliss.
“The bike lane issue is another one altogether and I trust the province will make the proper decision. “
HAHAHA!!! …errrr sorry
“Ontario's Minister of Transportation at a photo-op after she announced the pilot e-bike program. Yes, the Minister of Transportation is driving a Veloteq scooter-style e-bike at:
http://veloteq.com/newsroom.htm”
While I spoke with Cansfield one evening her limo stayed parked outside in the bike lane for 1/2hr. Nice lady but clueless.
“I have been a little reluctant only because it is a pilot program and do not want to be stuck with a white elephant. I wished the government would make a decision one way or the other...The suspense is killing me.”
When I asked Cansfield about this she explained to me that it was only “labeled” a pilot because of some feared backlash by un-named parties… By that time the “pilot” period was well underway and she said they had nothing but positive feedback. (Course, this was before Veloteq et al were so prevalent…)
tks
Lock
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