The CBC reports that the pedestrian committee is working to close a loophole that allows e-bikes on sidewalks. This makes sense, as e-bikers must be adults, and the intention of the bylaw was to allow children to ride on sidewalks.
I find that my perception of e-bikes is influenced by whether the e-bike looks like a bicycle, or looks like a motorcycle/scooter. I recently saw a bicycle-style e-biker motoring her way down the sidewalk on Queen street, and most people didn't seem to care. The other day, I was passed rather closely by a motorcycle-style e-bike in the bike lane, but was glad that he sounded his bell/horn to alert me to his presence. I don't personally have a problem with e-bikes using bike lanes, and am rather dismayed that the Bike Union has taken an opposing position. A 32 km/h top speed e-bike is much nicer to share the roads with than more cars!
However, monkey see = monkey do. It looked like a motorcycle using the bike lane. After this a real motorcycle decided to use the bike lane to pass congestion, which I do have a problem with as their speed is not limited, and can actually pose a danger.
Obviously many motorists are not clued in to the existence of e-bikes yet as I saw an e-bike travelling down the middle of the lane on Eastern Avenue, which would surely evoke honking rage if it was a bicycle travelling the same speed (regardless of the speed of traffic at that time).
What do you think? Do you think that perceptions of e-bikes are different whether they look like a bicycle, or look like a motorcycle or scooter?
Comments
Veloteq E-Biker (not verified)
Whether it looks like a
Wed, 06/03/2009 - 18:06Whether it looks like a scooter or not is irrelevant. No bikes on sidewalks should be the law, except of course for children. Perception is why certain people feel threatened by scooter style e-bikes.
Example:
Cyclist riding on sidewalk at 12 km per hour and behind him on the **exact same bicycle ** covered with a cosmetic covering to make it look like a motorcycle doing the exact same speed, and of course the "motorcycle on the sidewalk" would be perceived as much more dangerous.
Even though 5 pounds of plastic is all we added to the bike, which by the way would actually make the bike less dangerous because the plastic fairings would work as a "crush zone".
Ken Finch (not verified)
True, but the answer to this
Wed, 06/03/2009 - 19:38True, but the answer to this problem is absolutely nothing on the sidewalks but pedestrians, children on child bikes and such, strollers, mobility scooters and wheelchairs. Bicycles, E-Bikes any style, skate boarders, roller skaters all belong in the bike lanes or on the side of the road.
But on the other side of the coin pedestrians should stay on the sidewalks and cross at crosswalks.
Pedestrians should not walk on the side of the road or in the bike lane when there is a sidewalk they can use. Also they should not jay walk or cross in the middle of the road.
Ken Finch
random cyclist (not verified)
Woops! Sorry!!
Fri, 06/05/2009 - 21:33Woops Sorry! Wrong Thread!!!!! MY BAD
Veloteq Rider
electric
E-bike perceptions
Wed, 06/03/2009 - 21:59As I see it, e-bikes are simply the modern analog of gasoline style mopeds - both are powered by a small engine and both could be pedaled; The reality is that nobody pedals either one around.
Why our gov't went back and essentially reclassified a "moped" as a bicycle is beyond me. It probably has more to do with politics than common sense. Moped drivers are licensed and regulated to certain roads for good reasons. Reasons that we have already established, are those reasons no longer valid?
Is an e-bike much different than another limited speed vehicle such as a scooter or a moped? My perceptions say no, not really.
Tanya, you wrote "A 32 km/h top speed e-bike is much nicer to share the roads with than more cars!" but that isn't the issue in the article you cited. The issue is sharing your cramped bike lanes/multi-use pathways with them. Though the part about a motorcycle following an e-biker into the bike lane was a great allegory for the slippery slope we're about to go down.
Bobby (not verified)
Electric First...A moped goes
Wed, 06/03/2009 - 23:23Electric
First...A moped goes much faster than the alloted 32 km per hour, so an e-bike is not a a modern day moped. Second....If you read the Department of Transportations definition back in 2002, there are two styles they are introducing, one that is power assist and one that is power on demand....that is not required to be pedalled.
Extensive safety studies were done years in advance of the pilot program and e-bikes (both styles) were evaluated as safe at least as a bicycle for many reasons. i know this is a bike forum and you guys are die hard cyclists, but they don't fo fast, they are a great alternative and it is mind boggling why a cyclist let alone an cycling organization would request a ban across Ontario. Anyone with the slightest vision sees that these are a more than welcome alternative. A hundred years from now when e-bikes and e-cars and bicycles rule the world, some people will be able to say...Your Great Grandmother tried to ban these you know....theres a legacy.
electric
Of course I have the *slighest* vision
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 01:33If you're going to cite "studies" please provide links. Otherwise i'm just dismissing the "results" of those "studies" as rhetoric.
Bobby, if I limit my moped to 32 km/h can I call it an e-bike??? what? why not??
Yeah you're right, gee I guess they're soooo different. Excuse me for not noticing.
E-bikes are a good alternative just like a moped is, so lets remove the limiter and allow them to travel above 32km/h like they're designed to. E-bikes are full capable of doing this, just like a "real" moped - just wait until the next round of battery tech... they'll be capable of going even faster and further.
Ken Finch (not verified)
Again Electric I will repeat,
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 07:20Again Electric I will repeat, obviously you do not understand or know about electric vehicle design or technology. Even if I could go take the electronic governor off of my E-Bike the fastest speed I would gain is maybe a few kmh. So I would go from 32kmh to possibly 35-38kmh. It is not just the electronic governor that limits the E-bikes speed. It is the voltage of the battery pack, the power of the motor, the weight, wind, etc. The ministry picked a 500watt motor because its maximum power output ungoverned is within a small percentage of the 32-38kmh maximum capability. The controller then electronically limits it further to 32kmh. All E-Bike are designed from the ground up for that speed. If it was very easy to mod these E-Bikes to go faster then they would not have been approved for our roads. I have been studying the E-Bikes technology and I have become to realize they are custom designed for the MTO. So study and learn electronics, mechanics, fluid dynamics and study the E-Bike underlying technology before stating E-Bikes can go faster easily. Which they cannot without a major redesign and expensive parts added. That is why cyclist can and do ride faster then E-Bikes, because cyclists are not limited in speed and sometimes use that to ride at dangerous and unnecessary speeds in the wrong places (bike paths and sidewalks and in bike lanes with slower cyclists). Here is a link to an LEV website to help you learn something useful, http://visforvoltage.org
Ken Finch
electric
Ken Finch, ibiketo troll.
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:04TLDR
Did I catch something about mastering fluid dynamics before I can understand why a battery-powered moped is a bicycle?
Really Ken, you just go on and on trying to rationalize it.
Bobby (not verified)
As mentioned electric. There
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:28As mentioned electric. There is hundreds of pages on the subject of electric bicycles...Google the opposition and then at least you will be able to understand the differences between mopeds and bicycles and e-bikes...
below would be a good start...there is pictures for the guys and words for the girls..
http://www.icbc.com/registration-licensing/specialty-vehicles/low-powere...
Ken Finch (not verified)
Yes Electric fluid dynamics
Fri, 06/05/2009 - 19:22Yes Electric fluid dynamics is used for study how air will cool the controller and the motor. They use fluids because it is to control and see. They even use fluid dynamics to design automobiles and bicycles, bet you did not know that. That is because I do research on stuff I want to learn about, I do not just sit there and guess how it works. If you would read and study more you would understand more. But the way you talk your age must be between 16-25 years old. Still too young to have learned respect for others and have not mentally matured yet. Still in the partying, I am invincible and I know everything stage of your life. Do not worry if you make it to your 30s you will learn all these things and your mentality will mature. I still remember being like you 15-20 years ago. I now realize how much of a fool I was back then.
Ken Finch
bobby (not verified)
Bobby, if I limit my moped to
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 08:18Bobby, if I limit my moped to 32 km/h can I call it an e-bike??? what? why not??
No for so many reasons...one being it is gas and the other because it does not have the sticker from the manufacturer depicting what it is in both official languages...Sorry dont have time to links to the the law but they are readily available by googling...
electric
An e-bike isn't a moped because of the sticker and fuel source??
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:15I think your e-biker gang(LOL) can start a new moped/e-moped based movement... we'll get those suckers into bike lanes don't you worry one bit. Once we get those bilingual stickers on our sweet hogs those cyclists can stuff it - it will be like energy crisis in 1977 again with mopeds everywhere going anywhere!! beep beep get outta my way you stupid kids playing on the park path, beep beep vroom, beat it outta the bike lane old man. powerstop
don't make me high beam you, move right already, can't you see my signal!!
what a farce.
Bobby (not verified)
You also forgot limited speed
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:23You also forgot limited speed of 32,electric and an enabling mechanism separate from the throttle that operates as a kill switch which is usually in the brake as well as a few other details....more to it than meets the eye...why are you using the electric name anyway? Why not hand that name to somebody who cares?
electric
It is because I care, bobby, that I even bother posting here.
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:33I can limit my moped to 32km/h - easy... do i get to drive it in the bike lane and around city parks now??
Bobby (not verified)
no...you still don't get it
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:37no...you still don't get it and I fear you never will.....
electric
I don't get how you can green-wash an e-moped into a bicycle.
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:44So sorry I'm making things hard by calling a spade a spade... but then i'm working in reality here.
Norma (not verified)
Looking at the voting on CBC,
Wed, 06/03/2009 - 23:45Looking at the voting on CBC, it seems apparent the voting is against Yvonnes dream of banning e-bikes on paths. If I was her advisor I would advise to immediately pull back and retract her statement. I am not sure the TCU wishes this negative attention, especially when just starting out. Just my opinion of course, oh yeah and alot of other peoples too. Not that you have a chance of getting e-bikers on your side, I think the damage is done time and time again it seems. I recommend E-bikers form their own separate union anyways since the TCU has made their opinion loud and clear. They will never be on your side. www.durhamebikeassociation.org would be a good place to start. They have a great following and are non profit. Truly in it for the love of the product.
electric
This just in: CBC online poll seen as relevant??
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 01:44Norma,
Sorry to burst your bubble but a few e-bikers voting down other peoples comments on the CBC isn't really meaningful...
Poor Yvonne though, really, I wouldn't want to put up with the venom that group of e-bike owners and profiteers is spitting.
Maybe you'd like to redeem your comment and say something relevant to the perception of e-bikes in Toronto?
Ken Finch (not verified)
Sorry to burst your bubble
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 08:25Sorry to burst your bubble Electric (absolutely the wrong name for you, because obviously you do not know how electric items work) but a few elitest cyclists on a forum will not change the rest of Ontario and MTO decisions. The MTO decided to accept E-Bikes of all styles because of their previous safety record in other parts of Canada and during the Pilot Program and by there design which has many more safety features built in then a standard bicycle does (in fact a bicycle does not come standard with the MTO required safety features, bells, headlights and tail lights or reflectors). All other cyclists accept us reasonably well, just a few outspoken individuals and a union leader with no aspirations to look no further then Toronto in her scope about the cyclists agenda in Ontario. Toronto is only a small part of Ontario. We should not be basing all of Ontario's cycling agendas and rules on just one small portion of the province and one small union compared to the rest of Ontario's cycling population.
Ken Finch
electric
Ken, you didn't ask my opinion on e-bikes. =)
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:31Ken I know how "electric items" work - from what you've said I doubt you have more than a passing understanding of electricity.
Well, perhaps enough on how not to kill yourself when you plug your e-bike.
Most cyclists accept everybody - just as long as they're in the road not in a bike lane pretending they're a bicycle.
Finally all of you seem to be glossing over this point - nobody is banning e-bikes from ontario roads we just want them out of bike lanes and paths like Ottawa did last year
Bobby (not verified)
You mean like a couple of
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:40You mean like a couple of individuals wanted to do last year but failed....again so wrong....its like you read but do not understand....
electric
e-bikes are pretty much banned from trails in Ottawa bobby.
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 22:46http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/08/07/ot-ebikes-ncc-080807.html
don't worry though, the world didn't end.
Bobby (not verified)
The bike lanes are legal for
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 23:48The bike lanes are legal for ebikes to ride in Ottawa..
Ken Finch (not verified)
Electric I have 25+ years
Fri, 06/05/2009 - 04:28Electric I have 25+ years experience as a board level repair technician for notebook computers and 5+ years experience in general electronics circuit level repair. You said E-Bikes could easily be made to go faster then 32kmh, which is not the case and I could easily prove it by showing why it is not easy inexpensive too. So either you obviously do not know about E-Bike technology or you figured you would say that as and hope nobody would question you about it. To make an E-bike go highway speeds here is what you would have to do. Add more batteries to go from 48V 20AH to 96V 60AH. Change the controller to a 96V 60A. Change the motor to a 3-5KW version. Replace the suspension, frame, brakes to motorcycle class components. In other words completely redesign the complete E-Bike to a electric Motorcycle. The average cost not including labor would be around $5-$10,000.00. Now do you want me to get into the circuitry changes needed or can we leave it at I do have a bit of experience in electronics to know what I am talking about. Sure you maybe able to change the batteries in your bicycle light, but your incorrect generalizations about E-Bike technology is irritating at best. I gave you a link so you can learn about LEVs (Light Electric Vehicles) use it and learn about the topic before you speak.
Ken finch
Ken Finch (not verified)
I am sorry you feel that way
Fri, 06/05/2009 - 04:49I am sorry you feel that way Electric, but the MTO says we can ride in the bike lanes and that will not change because a small number of die hard elitest cyclists do not want to share. In the real world I share our roads and bike lanes everyday with virtually no problems. So just because you and a few others are selfish with a union leader that does not want to grow up and work with the MTO and E-Bikers it most likely will not change. TCU is the Toronto Cycle Union. So obviously that union is only interested in what happens in Toronto only. So that Union should not be trying to change laws for the whole province of Ontario unless it is ready for the expense of traveling all over Ontario to get the opinions and see what the rest of the cyclists in Ontario need. But since your union only consists of Toronto and GTA area only members and only has interest in the GTA not all of Ontario. Then the TCU should not be able to decide for the rest of Ontario without doing full research and spend their money to get the rest of Ontario cyclists opinions and see what the rest of Ontario cyclist needs are. In other words stop pretending that a small number of downtown Toronto cyclists represent all of Ontario's cyclists opinions and try and ruin it for us all based on that. Stick to your area only, unless you are willing to fund the cycling structure for all of Ontario via the TCU's budget.
Ken Finch
Ken Finch (not verified)
Well from what I can tell
Fri, 06/05/2009 - 06:50Well from what I can tell Ottawa banned the E-bikes from the bike paths but NOT from the bike lanes. I am fine with not using the bike paths in our parks for E-Bikes and for anything but a standard bicycle with no cargo bags attached. But I am against E-bikes being banned from the bike lanes. Get your facts straight Electric, do some research on a subject before posting please.
Ken Finch
Veloteq Rider
I am sure if e-bikers went on
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 13:18I am sure if e-bikers went on a crusade to ban bikes off paths or certain areas, Yvonne would be the first to spit venom. When you attack another persons choice, you must expect it. The perception of e-bikes in Ontario is extremely positive. Apparently we are ahead of Vancouver in sales in their first two years. Really it is a few posters on blogs that are the knockers. I know a young lady who rides hers to work every day and it is the same cyclist everyday that rides past her and spews ignorant comments. To condemn all cyclists would be wrong for this moron's ignorant road rage.
I guarantee you he is single.
Tom Flaherty
Looking at the voting on CBC,
Wed, 06/03/2009 - 23:55I noticed that the article features a picture of a bicycle fitted with an electric motor - and not the scooter style e-bike.
I my opinion, this discrepancy is where the whole debate rests.
Jacob L.
Bike Lanes
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 00:11Interesting story with the motorcycle using a bike lane to get by, but I don't like that at all. I think that bike lanes should be exculsively used by zero-emission transport only.
G2 (not verified)
Emissions
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 00:39I would second that emotion: no emission transportation in Bike Lanes. That includes police horses.
Rich (not verified)
let's be honest here...
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 00:58I think a lot of the ire against e-bikes comes from the simple fact that most of us dislike having to share our bike lanes with people who are too weak and lazy to move themselves under their own power. It gets masked under arguments about safety and whatever else, but at the core of it I think a lot of us feel that if you're too lazy and out of shape to actually pedal and actually put some work in to get where you're going, you don't deserve to be in the bike lane.
I'll at least admit it, but I'm sure I'm not the only person who feels this way.
Veloteq Rider
RichI can't believe you said
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 15:12Rich
I can't believe you said that? From that comment I know you are very young so I will go easy on you.
Anyone in a car, on a motorcyle, on a bus you are calling too weak and lazy? That would be like saying a cyclist is too lazy to walk or run. Since when is our transportation to work or in some cases school, our excercise time? There are people who ride their e-bikes to the golf course, to the gym and to work where they get lots of physical excercise. Biking while good excercise certainly is not the only excercise option out there. If I was sitting at desk all day I would probable want to ride my bicycle instead of my e-bike. Not every one sits at desks. Some people prefer a full body excercise.
Try rowing....That's my choice. My e-bike is simply my transportation alternative when I do not need my truck. My goal is to turn around the TCU and any other bike union to respect another persons choice. At the moment I think motorists, cyclists and pedestrians are watching the media and the TCU's stance on e-bikes and the majoirty disagree wholeheartily. Granted some paths are congested....Most are not, and are capable of transporting thousands and thousands of people to and from work without a car. Clean and Green and why shouldn't there be choices?
toddtyrtle
My objections
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 09:41Let me preface by saying that I don't see a solution that is going to satisfy everyone, some form of compromise is going to be necessary. Whether that's drivers putting up with slower e-bikes in their lane or cyclists dealing with faster ones in theirs, is to be determined.
My personal objection is about the weight and speed. Yes, I've seen the arguments about how some e-bikes' weights are not that different. But the speed is something I do see changing the feel of bike lanes. Right now, most any bike has the capability of going 32 km/h or more. However, the number of folks actually maintaining that speed constantly in the bike lane is relatively few. Couple that with some of these units being much heavier than a standard bike and I get a little nervous. Would I like to see e-bikes banned from bike lanes/paths? At this point, yes. But also at this point I realize that compromise may be required and truth be told, I need to do more research before I start saying my opinion should be made in to legislation. (Which is not to say the others posting here are in the same boat)
But really, I see this whole argument as an unfortunate waste of energy that could be much better directed elsewhere. For example, how much does it matter whether there are e-bikes in the College Street bike lanes or not if there are cars and courier vans parked in them? How useful are bike lanes placed in the door zone? How useful are bike lanes filled with snowbanks?
Seems to me the anti-bike faction of Council would like nothing more than to see us battling straw men like this rather than holding their feet to the fire.
Svend
I agree Todd, it's a waste of
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 10:01I agree Todd, it's a waste of energy for cyclists to argue with e-cyclists when we both have the same larger interests. We both want more and better cycling infrastructure.
I have no fears of heavier e-bikes behind me, I know it's a false perception that they will ram me since there have been no incidents of this happening.
Let's keep the idea that cycling is dangerous to others out of here.
Ken Finch (not verified)
Thanks for your input
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 10:02Thanks for your input Toddtyrtle, it is much appreciated by all. Yes on both sides there needs to be compromises if we are ever going to move into the future beyond this to a better cycling future. I would rather talk about real cycling problems like auto vs E-Bike/bicycle/pedestrian safety issues. And also public school bicycle education programs implimented in the Primary schools. But for some reason whenever that topic is brought up none of the cyclists want to discuss it (is it not as debatable/argueable enough for their tastes).
Ken Finch
Veloteq Rider
toddtyrtleMy objection to
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 10:12toddtyrtle
My objection to bicycles could be their speed, which a young inexperienced rider can achieve easily, posing both threats to pedestrians and to cars swerving to miss them. Despite my objections the answer is not to ban kids on bicycles, nor would it be to put limiters on their bikes so they couldn't travel faster than 20 km per hour until they are older. Even then, should a cyclist be allowed to ride at breakneck speeds downhill so they could make it up the other side without pedalling. I may object to alot of things, but to wish a ban on another alternative to driving that attracts another market altogether. One less car on the road. That should be a common goal between both of us.
Fortunately in my travels, I find 80% are more open and understanding and even excitied about this alternative. It really is the odd die hard cyclist that seems to object. I understand that some paths are conjested but there are many that are not. Many e-bikers also use their e-bikes in many small towns where everything is 2 km away. To ask for a ban in Ontario because of congestion downtown is not a well thought out plan. More paths are needed...Use e-bikers as an ally to get what you want since we want the same thing. When I started e-biking I never considered cyclists objecting to my choice, and in most cases they don't..It is just certain posters that do not get it, and are bothered whether someone pedals or not. It doesn't bother me when cyclists are coasting and not pedaling. Viva la difference!
AnnieD
Veloteq - a question about speed
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 10:33A lot of the arguments against e-bikes refer to the 32km/hr speed, but none of the e-bikers I've seen (admitedly, not that many, though maybe I'm just not paying attention) have been going anywhere close to this speed. Was this by choice - they were going at the same speed as the slower cyclists (and, given the congestion, the cars) around them, or are there mechanical reasons why an e-cyclist might not continually cruise along at 32km/hr on flat roads?
toddtyrtle
Speed
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 12:00Totally agree - according to my GPS I average 20-25 km/h around town. That, alone, doesn't make me dangerous. Fact is, I pass courteously in the bike lanes, giving ample space to the cyclists there and slow down behind them if I can't pass. If an e-biker fails to do that, it's not his motor that puts him at fault. It is a lack of consideration and would likely be a problem no matter what mode of transportation they chose.
Hopefully we can all get past this little taste of fundamentalism quickly and move on towards getting what we all want, more safety and respect on our streets.
Veloteq Rider
AnnieDTo achieve greater
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 14:26AnnieD
To achieve greater range, I personally throttle along at around 22 or 23 km per hour. Just like a car gets bad gas mileage going 110 or 120 an e-bike battery operates similar. Full throttling all the time drains your battery quicker and therefore your range decreases. Plus, just like a cyclist if you look ahead and see a red light or a green light, it may determine the speed you wish to travel. If there is a red light up ahead, i tend to slow down so that by the time i reach the light it's green, They are very similar to riding a bike but your legs are not the motor. It costs me 15 cents to travel 60 km on my e-bike. A huge savings over my 8 cyclinder truck that is sometimes needed for business.
Random cyclist (not verified)
I'm all for lower emmission
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 14:34I'm all for lower emmission vehicles. I'm all for not squabbling amongst ourselves.
What I find difficult is that we've fought for every KM of bike lane in this City. Sure in some parts of Ontario e-bikes might work in bike lanes. However here, there are bike lanes that are already crowded - take Harboard for example or the Waterfront trail on most days of the summer. To haphzardly add another group to this mix is poor planning. Maybe when there's bike lanes on more than 1.7% of Toronto's roads, I'll reconsider.
Veloteq Rider
Torontocentric
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 15:55To attempt a ban on a sustainable alternative of transportation, across an entire province because of a congested area is unconsciable. 80% of the riders of scooter style e-bikes are not downtown Toronto, they are afraid they would be stolen or vandalized. Most people would not want to ride their bike downtown. If the paths are too crowded then perhaps quit recruiting more cyclists to give up their car..Your club is apparently full. More paths are needed...Agreed. Use the fact that the government has allowed them into the mix as part of your argument to get what it is needed...Much more positive without alienating another group against you. In my opionion Yvonne would do herself more justice by using e-bikes as a tool for her demands. Larger audience and more voices.
Demand the paths as a result of the decision....not the "exterminate them all attitude".
Seymore Bikes
Veloteq Feedback
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 16:43Maybe all two wheeled road users should be more collaborative, but if that's your message, you'll need to do a better job of communicating it.
I don't know where you are getting your information from, but there are some rather dubious claims in your post.
Veloteq Rider
Which dubious claims are you
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 17:16Which dubious claims are you referring to Seymore E-Bikes? LOL
If it is my 80% story, ask yourself this....with litterly thousands and thousands of scooter e-bikes sold in Ontario in the last three years, how many do you really see in a day downtown?
I am always trying to be respectful, however when someone is trying to have you "banished to the forest" a good defense sometimes has to be a strong offense. Nobody wants us to be friends more than me...
Seymore Bikes
Dubiousness
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 17:24OK, if I must, here’s my top 3, but you asked for them:
1.Nobody is “attempt(ing) a ban on a sustainable alternative of transportation, across an entire province”
I don’t know how you confused this with the debate on e-bikes being classified as bicycles.
2. “80% of the riders of scooter style e-bikes are not downtown Toronto, they are afraid they would be stolen or vandalized. Most people would not want to ride their bike downtown.”
80% of what? GTA? Toronto? Nobody is tracking the number of e-bike sales, are you?
Who is afraid of them being vandalized?
How do you know that “most” people don’t want to ride their bike downtown?
3. “If the paths are too crowded then perhaps quit recruiting more cyclists to give up their car..Your club is apparently full”
The TCU is not full, not even close.
What reason could you have to suggest that we “quit” the effort to get more people cycling?
Veloteq Rider
#1 on your list...from her last CBC visit
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 17:49**But riding e-bikes on the sidewalks isn't the only problem.
Yvonne Bambrick of the Toronto Cyclists Union wants the city to go further and ban e-bikes from bike lanes and paths.
"I believe that any type of motorized vehicle whether it's an electric motor or a gas motor belongs with other motorized vehicles in the main part of our streets," she said.
At the root of the cyclists' concern is Ontario's new Road Safety Act.
Under the act an e-bike isn't classified as a motorcycle, but as a "power-assisted bicycle" because it has handlebars and pedals, and is capable of being propelled by muscular power, has a power output of less than 500W, and the power stops when brakes are applied.
Even though e-bikes have an ignition, lights and a speedometer, the province says they're still bicycles.
So according to the law, e-bikes are allowed everywhere that regular bikes can go bike lanes, bike trails, even bike stands and lockers.
**
Veloteq Rider
#2 on your list
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 18:23Yes I have been tracking sales now for over 3 years...over 1000 on my list, it's a "hobby" of mine...True
Veloteq Rider
#3 on your list
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 18:12I know your club isn't full silly...on the contrary..... but apparently the paths are overcrowded already which is one of the reasons e-bikes are not welcome according to certain spokespeople within certain cycling unions that I am not allowed to mention....My point Seymore is we need more paths and together we can get that faster than alone. I am speculating of course but with experience. Alot of paths are underused, so we have no problem there..The problem is congestion...we are not the cause...Cars are a big part of the congestion..If someone replaces their car for a bicycle or and e-bike, why is that not a good thing? (keeping in mind than not everyone will replace a car with a bicycle although that would be good)
Seymore Bikes
1,2,3...Sorry But No
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 21:11Nice back pedaling though - even for an e-biker (LOL). I was more impressed with your pick-up on The Trees post.
Seymore Bikes
The Trees
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 16:48There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.
Sound familiar?
Veloteq Rider
Yes...Great Poem....Now can we get back to business...LOL
Thu, 06/04/2009 - 17:04The trouble with the maples
And they’re quite convinced they’re right
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light
But the oaks can’t help their feelings
If they like the way they’re made
And they wonder why the maples
Can’t be happy in their shade
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